Safe, Efficient, Profitable: A Worker Safety Podcast
Joe and Jen Allen of Allen Safety LLC take their combined 40+ years of worker safety, OSHA, EPA, production, sanitation, and engineering experience in Manufacturing Plants including Harvest Plants/Packers, Case Readies and Further Processing Plants, Food Production Plants, Feed Mills, Grain Elevators, Bakeries, Farms, Feed Lots, and Petro-Chemical and bring you their top methods for identifying risk, preventing injuries, conquering the workload, auditing, managing emergencies and catastrophic events, and working through OSHA citations. They're breaking down real safety opportunities, safety citations, and emergency situations from real locations, and discussing realistic solutions that can actually be implement based on their personal experiences spending 40+ weeks in the field every year since 2001. Joe and Jen are using all of that experience to provide a fresh outlook on worker safety by providing honest, (no sponsors here!) and straight forward, easy to understand safety coaching with actionable guidance to move your safety program forward in a way that provides tangible results.
Safe, Efficient, Profitable: A Worker Safety Podcast
#42: 4 Questions to Ask Before First Aid CPR Training
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Key Points:
Introduction and Schedule Update:
Podcast hosts, Joe and Jen Alan Safety, introduce the episode.
Discuss the shift to a bi-monthly schedule due to a busy season.
Apologize for the background noise due to having kids and winter illnesses.
Host's Background and Military Experience:
Joe shares his background as a Navy corpsman with CPR training experience.
Highlights the contrast between military and civilian CPR training settings.
Top 4 Things to Consider Before First Aid CPR Training:
Identify Specific Needs:
Determine the type of training needed (e.g., one-person, two-person, AED usage).
Decide on the training setting (classroom or field) and the desired end result.
Define Training Purpose:
Assess the specific scenarios relevant to the industry and location.
Consider injuries common to the industry and identify the expected response.
Address Unique Situations (Weird Scenarios):
Discuss scenarios like responding to an MCC room, handling live animals, using backboards, and dealing with remote areas.
Emphasize tailoring training to the unique challenges of the industrial environment.
Manage Dignity During Emergencies:
Highlight the importance of considering the dignity of individuals during medical events.
Discuss scenarios such as using an AED in public spaces and the need for privacy.
Annual reviews with fire departments are emphasized, considering potential differences between paid and volunteer fire departments in terms of tools and equipment.
The hosts underscore the importance of tailoring training to workplace environments, addressing weird scenarios, and providing managers with tools to navigate diverse situations.
Legal Disclaimer and Practical Advice:
Hosts acknowledge that they provide opinions and suggest listeners make informed decisions.
Stress the importance of thinking through the end goal of training and tailoring it to the specific environment.
Discuss the need for annual reviews with local fire departments and adapting training to available resources.
Closing Thoughts and Call to Action:
Remind listeners to consider the practical aspects of first aid CPR training in their specific environments.
Encourage evaluations of emergency plans to ensure they align with the unique challenges of the workplace.
The episode concludes with a call to action, thanking listeners and urging them to subscribe, like, and share the podcast to support the continued production of free content. Stay safe, and catch you in the next episode! 🚑🎙️
First Aid CPR training
Industrial CPR scenarios
Tailored emergency response
Workplace emergency planning
Dignity in medical emergencies
Remote area first aid
Backboard usage in CPR
Unique industrial emergency scenarios
Military CPR training
AED usage in public spaces
First Aid CPR Training Considerations
Speaker 1Let's go in. Everybody welcome back. This week we are talking about first aid CPR, so we're breaking down the top four something Top four things.
Speaker 2You need to be asking for you to get training scheduled.
Speaker 1Yep, okay, here we go, let's get into it.
Speaker 2Here we go. Alright, Joe and Jen Allen, Safety this week's topics, top four things you should be asking before you do first aid, CPR training.
Speaker 1Yep, so just a little bit of housekeeping stuff. This is getting into our super busy season. We're getting ready to do a whole bunch of PPE assessments, lockout procedures, confined space assessments, 10 hour classes, and so we kind of had a chat. We're like you know what it just it feels right to dial back just a little bit to two times a month.
Speaker 2We did it every week to kind of let everybody know what we're doing.
Speaker 1Yep so we did the drops once a week on the podcast the whole time that we've been doing this. But we're going to dial it back for maybe, maybe permanently, I don't know. We're going to feel it out, we're going to see how it goes, but we're going to dial it back to twice a month. So I just wanted to let you guys know that. First off the top sorry for the voice we've got kids and it's winter, so we thought we had an immune system. Turns out no.
Speaker 2That's why we're doing a first aid episode.
Speaker 1Yep, because you have kids. I need some first aid right now.
Speaker 2So for those of you who don't know, I used to be in the military. I was a Navy corpsman. So originally I did CPR training for years and I didn't think much about some of these ideas because of the setting we did it in. We always assumed that you did it in the setting that you were going to be doing it in, so you trained in whatever task or process or environment you were going to train in and or do processes.
Speaker 1It was already very regimented of. This is the class you're going to have. We're going to be outside, we're going to be getting dirty.
Speaker 2That's how you're going to do first aid. Cpr Getting severe in the world and I find out none of that.
Speaker 1There's all these different versions, yeah.
Speaker 2I was confused, so here's what it goes. Top four things One figure out what kind you actually need.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2Am I going to need one person, two person? Am I going to use an AED? Am I not? Am I going to? Am I going to having a classroom setting or having the field? You need to figure out where your classroom is actually gonna be the knowledge you want the person to have that's gonna be doing the training and how's it actually gonna end result what you're looking for.
Speaker 1Well, I think, if you could even dial it back a step, farther than that and look at it from the standpoint of what are the injuries that we could realistically have, based on whatever industry we're in. So what are the injuries? That we have at this location that we have a history of in this industry. What are the injuries? And then look at what do we expect people to even respond to?
Speaker 2A package of machine is gonna be different than a live animal. That's gonna be different than a truck trailer it's gonna be different than a seizure event. So we've got a list of other things we'll cover, but the point is you gotta make that decision first, you gotta find out what am I really wanting?
Speaker 1Yeah, something you may decide. We're not even gonna respond to that. That's way past what we're comfortable with, and that is what you need to decide.
Speaker 2You need to decide your limit, because even though I did what I did in the military, there was a limit to what I didn't do, and then that defaulted to other people with more experience education. You also had to decide that. So you gotta decide what kind of class you're gonna have, what environment you're gonna have, what's the end result, and then you gotta decide what is gonna be my stopping point in this class. So that's the first one. You gotta figure that out. The second one is you gotta figure out what exactly it's for. So, for example, are you gonna be doing fine space entries? Maybe you're not, so you don't need first aid CPR. Maybe you are. Now you need first aid CPR for those people. Are you gonna be looking at moving live animals? If you have a live animal and it's coming off a trailer, that's a completely different first aid CPR than managing an animal and a person in an area full of animals or inside or outside.
Speaker 2Yeah, like a turkey or chickens or pens or something inside with multiple animals moving around Having a heart attack there is a completely different treatment than having it in a classroom setting or an office space. You could have areas like my old plant in the cattle pin area. We had a person go down with a medical event. No one has a policy that says I will do medical treatment on somebody while I'm looking at the animal at eye level.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2So how are you gonna move the animals? How are you gonna perimeter off the area for that person to see and stabilize the area? And the other thing we looked at was you have catwalks. When you may decide to use an AED or not, are you gonna allow certain AEDs or certain catwalks or say these areas, we're not going to use the AED, we're just gonna do compressions and let the fire department or the animals crew manage it?
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2And the other one could be a caught in. Are we gonna allow people to work with someone caught in an auger, caught in a piece of equipment?
Speaker 1Yeah, who Is that? The first aid crew? Or is that my maintenance crew. Maybe that's one of the same, Maybe my volunteer fire and medical.
Speaker 2by the time they get there, most of the stabilization has been done. So maybe the first aid is stabilized in the scene and maintenance maybe the one actually doing the cut out the auger, the machine because, or pulling a pin on a conveyor because fire doesn't know, or animals isn't sure, so they default to you. You gotta ask those questions what for?
Speaker 1Well, and I think you can take it all the way back and tie it into when you're doing your annual visits with your fire department are they paid or are they volunteer, because that could be changing what they're able, or they have the skill sets or the tools or the equipment to even do. They may not have the tools and the equipment to do. Or the currying yeah to do some of these tasks and that may kind of change the training that you're gonna have to provide for your folks.
Speaker 2Absolutely. The other one is. So that's your, that's your second one. Decide what you're going to do for. Yeah, what are the category. Now you go down to your weird section. Now what are the weirds? Arc flash Everyone has an MCC room. Yeah, are you going to expect your people to respond to an MCC room? Responding to someone in a burned event An MCC room is completely different than someone laying in a perfect environment in a classroom when everything looks exactly right, yeah, like an office setting.
Speaker 1Yeah, that's not the same thing.
Speaker 2That's the same thing showing at that. So what would you do? Another weird one would be a backboard. Are you going to allow them to use a backboard or not? A lot of first DCPRA training doesn't cover backboard use. But yeah, someone will imply that they're going to use the backboard for the use in AD. Well then you got to train them how they're going to do that and how you're going to. Are you even going to move or not? Or is your first DCPRA say you're going to treat them right there, no matter what?
Speaker 1Yeah, and up to and including, what kind of backboard? Style design you've been moving device, or you can even have, because there's so many different versions. You've got baskets. You've got the fiberglass flat ones. What kind of straps?
Speaker 2are you going to do?
Speaker 1Some fold in half, some don't, some are wouldn't. What even are you going to have?
Speaker 2High stands. You're going to be working in elevated areas, so are you going to stabilize someone there and bring a fire truck in to move them down? Are you going to have a high stand on a production floor where you're expected to move that person eight foot down? How are you going to do that? So think about when you're doing first aid CPR. You may do the process, but what are the multiple variables around that? That's going to change the way you may do that job.
Speaker 1Well, and I think part of it is really just defining. Maybe it's in a program, maybe it's through working with a corporate. If you have a corporate team, you know if you've got corporate doctors or corporate medical nursing something like that, but it's working with those teams and if you don't, you know working with your local area to really determine what are we wanting people to respond to, what is the scope of equipment we want to have here and what should that equipment be given our environment that we're working in and really working through that.
Speaker 2Yes, my last word is the remote areas. We have areas that I'm, you know, hundreds and hundreds of feet to a next resource Maybe that's a barn, and an ambulance is long ways away.
Speaker 1Oh, it could be like a quarter mile.
Speaker 2Yeah, maybe it's a wastewater area. It's the back of a plant Long ways away.
Speaker 1Oh yeah, those are way, way back.
Remote Areas and Dignity in CPR Training
Speaker 2Maybe it's a. Maybe it's a. You know, we have an area where we're moving product and that product is, you know, the back 40 somewhere and we've got a UTV out there doing work and someone gets a cut or something.
Speaker 1So look, at the remote areas I'm thinking of specifically, like some of our packing houses. Yeah, the wastewater is way far away.
Speaker 2Yeah, it takes a couple of minutes, so you got a long walk.
Speaker 1That's why they have the little UTVs and stuff.
Speaker 2Yeah, so basically, if someone's driving a UTV to go back and forth Because they're too far to walk, that's telling you that's remote area.
Speaker 1Yeah, I'm thinking of some of our complexes where we may have a plant and a hatchery or and a mill or whatever kind of on the same, we'll say, property.
Speaker 2Right, but not really. Or it's like across the street.
Speaker 1But yeah, I mean, yeah, you drive it.
Speaker 2You drive it because it's too far. So if it's a remote area, you got to think about how you're going to stabilize that person, give them medical care and wait for the timing for the agencies to get there.
Speaker 1Yeah, are we moving them or are we not?
Speaker 1And how do we make those determinations?
Speaker 1And so I think what I'm hearing the biggest thing is is, typically, when we get some kind of first aid CPR, bls, als, whatever the case may be we are getting skill sets to treat a human being, but those are being displayed to us in a classroom or a conference room and it's perfect and, typically speaking, that instructor is not real familiar with whatever our environment is on the industrial side, and so the scenarios that we're working through we're not having those scenarios be tailored to a high stand, to electrical or arc flash too. It's dirty and wastewater, and how do I provide dignity with lots of people standing around if I've got to use an AED? We're not tailoring the training to include some of those things, and so I guess the question really becomes do we lean on the trainer to provide that, and is that something the trainer is willing to provide, or is that something that we have to catch up then on the back end as a location? If they won't, because somehow we still have to close that gap and close that circle.
Speaker 2So my other side of it is legal disclaimer. These are our opinions. You can do whatever you want to do, and also we don't teach First Aid CPR.
Speaker 1So this is one of those things that we used to for years and I still work medical events today.
Speaker 2I mean, I've still worked car wrecks and events, so I'm going out of the road?
Speaker 1Well, it's because you have a medical background, but you're just not certified to teach it any longer, right?
Speaker 2So the point of it is this is just what you want to think about. And our fourth one is is the dignity side. I spend a lot of my career working on the how to protect the scene, how to protect the environment, how to protect the dignity of that person, whether it be an eye wash in a shower. We're expecting to use it for First Aid CPR, but let's give them yeah, we're going to sit here and wash somebody off for 15 minutes.
Speaker 215 minutes in the cold, cold water in an outdoor setting. Let's give them some dignity.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2We actually think about when you're treating somebody in a scene, whether it be a, you know, maybe they have a seizure and they're driving a vehicle in the property. I've worked those and you see and stabilize. You don't let just everybody walk by and take a picture. You don't let everybody look at everything that's going on. Yeah, you've seen, stabilized the area, managed them because take care of them. And then there's other events that would happen to you. But you should have, like we talked about, you should have.
Speaker 2I've got to decide what kind of training you want to have. What is going to be the end use for this training? Well, all these weird one offs that my environment has, that normal like an AAD. You don't use an AAD a lot of times in the morning while we're, because it's covered in water. So there's a two hour period where you don't use an AAD. Yeah, you may move the someone off the floor or that area to use the AAD, or 30 minutes later it's not issued. So it's that weird environment you have. And then the last one is how are you going to manage the dignity of that person for everything you're expecting to do to help them during that medical scenario?
Speaker 1Well, yeah, given where they end up having the event. It could be an employee parking lot. It could be in the main hallway. Absolutely, they have the right to not have everybody staring at them when they're having a vulnerable moment so.
Speaker 1I think the biggest thing is just really evaluating, when you're writing your first aid, cpr plans or programs, or even if you're writing some of that into your emergency action plans, really thinking through it's not just a caught in or a heart attack how would this genuinely play out in different areas of our facility? And making sure that we're giving the managers and supervisors the tools they need to navigate that environment. And also, while this is going on, correct and figuring out how to kind of dovetail and join those together.
Speaker 2That's correct. So the only training we do close to this, we do some instant manager training. We talk about some of these scenarios and different examples and, like I said, whatever you decide to do at your location, start with what is the end result.
Speaker 1Yeah, where do you want to end up? It's probably the easiest way to do it when do you want to end up and what is the expectation you have of your managers and what do you want them to be able to do, and then just making sure that we've got some kind of program and training that supports getting to that end result.
Speaker 2Absolutely so. That's our episode for today. We appreciate it. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1All right guys, take care, have a wonderful week, stay safe.
Speaker 3Thank you for listening to Safe, efficient, profitable a Worker Safety Podcast. If you're looking for more in-depth discussions or step-by-step solutions on all of the different safety and regulatory topics, please visit us at wwwallonsafetycoachingcom for web-based virtual coaching and training, or at wwwallon-safetycom to book our team for on-site services, training sessions, to order merchandise, to learn more about our team and what services we provide in the field, or just simply to request a topic for us to cover on our next podcast. If you found today's podcast helpful and would like to support our podcast further, please help us by subscribing, liking and sharing this podcast with anyone that could benefit from the information we cover here, as that helps us to continue to put out this free content. Thank you so much for your support.
