Safe, Efficient, Profitable: A Worker Safety Podcast
Joe and Jen Allen of Allen Safety LLC take their combined 40+ years of worker safety, OSHA, EPA, production, sanitation, and engineering experience in Manufacturing Plants including Harvest Plants/Packers, Case Readies and Further Processing Plants, Food Production Plants, Feed Mills, Grain Elevators, Bakeries, Farms, Feed Lots, and Petro-Chemical and bring you their top methods for identifying risk, preventing injuries, conquering the workload, auditing, managing emergencies and catastrophic events, and working through OSHA citations. They're breaking down real safety opportunities, safety citations, and emergency situations from real locations, and discussing realistic solutions that can actually be implement based on their personal experiences spending 40+ weeks in the field every year since 2001. Joe and Jen are using all of that experience to provide a fresh outlook on worker safety by providing honest, (no sponsors here!) and straight forward, easy to understand safety coaching with actionable guidance to move your safety program forward in a way that provides tangible results.
Safe, Efficient, Profitable: A Worker Safety Podcast
#53: Confined Space Training- Do You Need It?
Summary:
Equipment Selection and Use: The speaker stresses the significance of proper equipment selection and training in using gear specific to confined space environments, emphasizing real-world scenarios and environmental conditions.
SCBA Usage and Alternatives: The speaker dispels myths around the necessity of Self-Contained Breathing Apparatus (SCBA) for confined space rescue, highlighting alternative rescue methods and the importance of assessing air quality within confined spaces.
Awareness Training vs. Specialized Training:
Awareness training informs individuals about the presence of confined spaces and the dangers associated with them, typically lasting about 15 minutes.
Specialized training goes beyond awareness and is tailored to specific job tasks, such as entering confined spaces, managing contractor entries, and signing permits.
Determining the Need for Training:
Businesses must assess whether they regularly work in confined spaces and the extent of their involvement (e.g., entering, managing entries).
Regular activities like maintenance, repairs, and cleaning may necessitate specialized training.
Contracting vs. In-house Training:
Companies can choose between contracting out confined space work or conducting training in-house based on frequency and cost-effectiveness.
In-house training is recommended for frequent confined space entry to ensure familiarity with specific spaces and conditions.
Selection of Equipment:
Equipment selection should be based on job tasks and environmental conditions, ensuring usability and effectiveness in the intended environment.
Training should incorporate the proper use of equipment in various conditions, including adverse weather.
Rescue Plans and Procedures:
Rescue plans should be developed based on the nature of confined space work and the potential risks involved.
Rescue plans may involve internal rescue teams or hiring external contractors, depending on the company's resources and needs.
Medical Preparedness:
Training should include awareness of potential medical emergencies within confined spaces and appropriate response procedures.
First aid and CPR training are essential for addressing medical emergencies that may occur inside confined spaces.
Continuous Improvement and Training Resources:
Companies should continually assess and improve their confined space training programs to ensure effectiveness and compliance with safety standards.
External training resources, such as safety coaching programs, can provide comprehensive training modules for confined space safety.
Keywords:
Confined space assessments
Workplace safety
Hazard identification
Risk management
Control measures
Personal Protective Equipment (PPE)
Rescue planning
Contractor collaboration
Site-specific assessments
Environmental factors
Engineering controls
Administrative protocols
Workplace safety
Occupational health and safety
Safety regulations
Hazard identification
Safety training
Personal Protective Equipment (PPE)
Safety procedures
Risk assessment
Workplace accidents
Safety compliance
Emergency preparedness
Workplace ergonomics
Fall protection
Confined space safety
Safety culture
Safety inspections
Confined Space Permit
Confined Space Evaluation
Confined Space Permit
Confined Space Classification
OSHA
1910.146
Safety tips
Safety toolbox talk
Safety System Management
Safety process management
Meter
Entry
Entrant
Attendant
Supervisor
Rescue
Confined Space Rescue
Contractors
Contractor safety
Contractor Management Programs
Confined Space Program
This week's episode should you have confined space training.
Speaker 2:And, if so, what level?
Speaker 1:How much? Why would you not want to have training?
Speaker 2:It's awesome, I love training. All right, here we go, let's dive in.
Speaker 1:All right, this week, confined space training, we do a lot of it. You know why? Because I like doing it. That's pretty much it. When you're an owner and you're like, okay, there's all these things you can do for safety services, well, I like training.
Speaker 2:It's not boring, there we go. I can't do hearing training.
Speaker 1:Actually one of the reasons I like training. Let's see how the screen is. You can get a free hat or a free shirt if you go to our training, and all different kinds.
Speaker 2:So I know I give stuff away for free because I like it so much yes, you get free stuff.
Speaker 1:But, so.
Speaker 2:So part of this is every place that we go that manufactures anything. That's one of our clients. They have confined spaces, so they are automatically right off the bat doing awareness training. What's awareness training? Hey, we have confined spaces here, don't go in them if you don't have more training, that's it, more training than what this is. But the hiccup, we see, is sometimes folks have just that, but they're also doing other tasks like signing off a contractor permit or signing other permits, managing contractor entries, and they really need a little bit more.
Speaker 1:Because people will say well, we don't in our confined space, we don't need all this.
Speaker 2:Right. So what is awareness training? It's not for entering, it's not for being an attendant, it's not for signing permits.
Speaker 1:It's like it could be 15 minutes.
Speaker 2:It's not for managing a contract or entry. Yeah, Awareness training is literally like 15 minutes. Here's what the sign looks like Don't go in. That that's it. I guess the biggest question is should you have confined space training? Do you have spaces One?
Speaker 1:Which you have other episodes, tell you how to select and fill assessments.
Speaker 2:Yep. Are you breaking the plane?
Speaker 1:That's it so it's labeled confined space. Are you breaking the plane?
Speaker 2:Yep, Do you have to look in reach?
Speaker 1:in.
Speaker 2:Grab something, shine a light in it, take a swab, stick your head in, put your whole body in there, climb all the way in. Stick your head in. Put your whole body in there, climb all the way in. Are you doing any of those things? And I don't mean just during normal production, I mean during the entire 24-hour cycle. I mean on weekends, for special projects, for cleaning intensive cleaning Hot works, you bet yeah. Pms repair.
Speaker 1:And if you say yes, Well guess what.
Speaker 2:There's a good indication. You may need a little something more. So from that moment on you can kind of decide okay, we know we have spaces. Currently we're breaking the plane of these in some fashion. Do we want to be? Is this something we want to do in-house, or can we contract that job, task or that situation?
Speaker 1:out. Now we actually tell people I just told you we do training right but we actually tell people don't hire us for training, because you may not need it. You have to be risk-based. We're an ethical company and if you're only going to that space one time a year, it may be cost-effective and less risky to hire that contractor, or if it's a space that's got a lot going on.
Speaker 1:you've got to tailor your training, but you also need to know when you're making that decision. You may say I don't want to train because I'm going to do this. That's still okay, but you have to break that down. Yep, now does somebody need to manage their contractor?
Speaker 2:Yes. So therefore, if you decide that you are going to contract it out, whoever is going to be kind of managing whatever that process looks like hiring that contractor, working with them, checking on them, signing off on their permit. Most of the time, locations have to sign off on a contractor permit to say, yeah, they're meeting the intent.
Speaker 1:That's how I end up training, meeting and exceeding the intent of what's going on.
Speaker 2:So that could be easily a two to four hour training if we're just doing those things, and it's a very, very limited group.
Speaker 1:We want to control that. When I do that class it is very, very detailed. We're basically working on contractors going into spaces. Here. It's different than just a regular person doing an entry.
Speaker 2:Yes. So that's the thing is you want to again we talk about this in all of our episodes provide training for the job tasks you expect your managers and employees to do. So that's just an example of you want to make sure that you're doing that. So if you're going to contract that out. Well then, we still have to have a little something for a few folks, Because some plants will actually say the contract still has to use a plant's permit.
Speaker 1:Yes. So if they do that, you still have to train people on your side.
Speaker 2:Well, you've got to know what should be on the permit too, if a contractor rolls up and they've got a permit. And it's about six line items. No to that, immediately no.
Speaker 1:What's the number one thing? The contractors don't ever bring Rescue.
Speaker 2:Rescue immediately.
Speaker 1:No guess what's the number one thing?
Speaker 2:the contractors don't ever bring rescue. Rescue they never do, it seems like. So the next moment is, as someone who's managing that situation, you've got to work with them. Are they going to contract someone out? That's great.
Speaker 1:Do you have some agreement? Some plants say you're the contractor and I provide the rescue.
Speaker 2:Well, now, that's a that. So what you need to know is, when you're hiring somebody from a contract side, you've got to make sure you're comparing apples to apples when you get those bids. Somebody may be cheaper, but maybe they're not willing to provide rescue. Well, we've still got to cover that somehow.
Speaker 1:So now you've got to train those. So the training has so many versions of whether you need to or not, based on what you decide as a business, it sure does, and the one segue that I will make in there is we hear a lot.
Speaker 2:well, the fire department will provide rescue. I would really heavily encourage you to contact that fire department and see what their response time is, where they're located, how long it takes them, because sometimes that's not adequate.
Speaker 1:It's not real sometimes.
Speaker 2:If they're on a different call, or if there's traffic, or if maybe you don't even have technical rescue where you're at.
Speaker 1:You're talking about six minutes. So when you go back to training you decide can we get him out of there in six minutes? If no, then maybe you need training. Correct, correct, all right so now we have contract, so that's one way to manage it, but maybe I decide to do it in-house.
Speaker 2:Maybe I decide to do in-house.
Speaker 1:So, maybe I'm going to probably be cheaper to do. I've got 400 spaces, but I'm only going into 10. So how much training do I need?
Speaker 2:Well, only for that 10. Yeah, train on what you expect him to do. Absolutely, I don't need to train him on things we're never going into and I'm never doing Just like. I don't need gear for that either.
Speaker 1:That's correct.
Speaker 2:I need gear for what I'm doing and I need to train my employees on that gear with those.
Speaker 1:But buy the gear also based on what you're going to allow your people to go into.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I mean in all honesty. We're not sponsored by any equipment manufacturers, which you know, and so anytime we give equipment recommendations, it's purely what we've seen work. It's got to be user-friendly to your location and it has to be for the environment that y'all are going to be using it in. So when?
Speaker 1:we talk about we work in gross environments.
Speaker 2:We do I mean and in all weather. So when you are talking about, do you need training, you want to make sure you're training on your gear in the environment, in the weather scenarios that you're going to be making these entries in Because that's how you find out if what you bought really works or not.
Speaker 1:We train in wastewater and rendering and the roof and in the snow, because you know what they still have to do those entries in those conditions you. Because you know what they still have to do, those entries in those conditions. You've got to train in those yeah. So part of your training is you not only have the training, but you've got to do it. If you're going to do it in-house, you've got to do it in your conditions.
Speaker 2:Yes. So the next piece of that is again what's my rescue plan going to be on? If you need training, are you going to be doing it internal? Are you going to?
Speaker 1:be hiring. I have to buy SCBAs now.
Speaker 2:No, okay, no. So just because you have a rescue team does not mean that it's big and bad and scary and I've got to have air packs and I'm doing fit tests and physicals and medical clearances. No, we have lots of places who do rescue, but they don't do rescues in bad air. How do you know? If it's bad air? You have a meter. So if it's bad air, and that's what's going on they don't go in and that's just the way it goes. You don't have to have SCBA.
Speaker 1:It could be a cut leg. It could be a heart attack.
Speaker 2:It could be a broken leg.
Speaker 1:I tripped and fell weird Because it was slick inside and I didn't realize it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I fell weird and my leg went this way, my body went the other way. You know, I mean, we have those, we like that and we're doing the same kind of maintenance job tasks inside the space. I have the same opportunities or potential that I could have that same kind of injury if I'm using a grinder and it slips or something. You know what I mean. Absolutely that can happen.
Speaker 1:We've been involved with a lot of entries and things have happened and we've had to go to work. Events that happened, yep, and hardly any of them had SCBAs related First aid. Cpr is needed, but this is also needed if you're going to go into that space.
Speaker 2:How do you do it inside the space?
Speaker 1:Yes, Because, doing it, we talked about heart attack a few weeks ago when we were in a mixer blender. The bottom of it's curved.
Speaker 2:for those of you who don't know, Yep, and it's got paddles that freely rotate.
Speaker 1:There's nowhere a compression in there.
Speaker 2:You can't.
Speaker 1:So your process is other avenues of doing that, but you just need to know they do tie together. But that's why you have to do it on the spaces you're going to go into.
Speaker 2:Yep, so, yep, absolutely so. I think that that's all for us today. Again, if you want more information, allensafetycoachingcom, an entire confined space module where this topic, along with 17, 18 other topics in there, over 100 different lessons. So if you want an economical way to navigate, that that's absolutely it. Otherwise, yeah, we do confined space training. So alan-safetycom is where you'll find all the information on our in-person services. So if you're like you know what, we do need some training, we need to get some things together and we love doing that.
Speaker 2:I love training, we drill, we love nothing but drill. So you won't be sitting. Prepare it's not PowerPoint, so all right guys.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening.
Speaker 2:You can reach out to us on social media. Alan Safety LLC is our handle, tiktok, instagram, facebook, all that good stuff. I mean, we got it everywhere we're on podcast, so Apple Podcasts, spotify, all the big ones, anywhere you listen to podcasts.
Speaker 1:If YouTube.
Speaker 2:Thank you for listening to Safe, Efficient, Profitable a worker safety podcast. If you're looking for more in-depth discussions or step-by-step solutions on all of the different safety and regulatory topics, please visit us at wwwallensafetycoachingcom for web-based virtual coaching and training, or at wwwallensafetycom to book our team for onsite services, training sessions, to order merchandise, to learn more about our team and what services we provide in the field, or just simply to request a topic for us to cover on our next podcast. If you found today's podcast helpful and would like to support our podcast further, please help us by subscribing, liking and sharing this podcast with anyone that could benefit from the information we cover here, as that helps us to continue to put out this free content. Thank you so much for your support. Thank you.
