#53 Confined Space Training Length, High Angle/Rope Rescue: BONUS EPISODE

Confined space training- how many hours should it be? Is there an “initial” class? Should it include high angle rescue? What about other versions of rope rescue?  What about train the trainer?  Before you schedule your confined space training this year, listen here- it could save you a lot of time and money and scheduling drama! 💰🕰️

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Transcript

Speaker 0: 0:00

As a confined space trainer that does somewhere between 1,200 and 1,500 entries between training drills and projects per year, one of the top questions we get is how long does the training have to be? Have to be right, because we're all running shorthanded, right. We're short, it's hard to pull people out for training. It's hard to have coverage on the floors and we're navigating vacation and the different schedules. It's hard to have coverage on the floors and we're navigating vacation and and the different schedules that maybe we've got you know four doing four, tens or three, twelves or whatever it is that our maintenance schedule is. So we're navigating that and we're navigating nights and trying to give people downtime in between so that they can switch shifts, if the training's only offered into all this stuff. So they really want to know how long does it have to be? And that is really kind of a loaded question. It's very dependent on what do you want to get out of it in terms of what skill sets you want your team to be able to do at the completion of the training. Is your team going to be doing confined space entry only? Is your team going to be doing confined space entry as well as rescue, or are you just looking to validate that the contractor's following 1910-146 correctly? Are you just looking to be able to sign off on permits? What is it that you want to get out? Do you have a lot of variety in the types of confined spaces you're entering in or are you only going into two different styles? And so that's really going to be the biggest determining factor on what type of training you need and how many hours it should be. But the biggest question that we get asked is around this eight hour versus 16 hour, is there some kind of initial class almost similar to the hazmat side, the 24 hour initial hazmat technician class? That's kind of the prerequisite. There is no requirement from a regulatory body that says you have to have any kind of the prerequisite. There is no requirement from a regulatory body that says you have to have any kind of initial special training that is more in depth theoretically than just the regular class that you'd be going through every year from a confined space side. So that is treated the same as all of the other subjects in terms of, like PIT, elevated work, lockout. None of those have a prerequisite initial class and confined space is not any different. Hazmat is, and it does require that that added length of initial class but confined space doesn't. And if the reason is that they're doing 16 hours because they're showing lots of PowerPoint and video and it just takes a certain amount of time and they sell it to you as well, we're going to do all this classroom stuff the first day and we're going to do all the drills the second day.

Speaker 0: 2:32

As a trainer that's done it for over 20 years, I'm going to tell you my teams are rock stars. It's not necessary. You don't need it. If you have the right trainer, let's cut to the chase. Let's talk about the stuff that applies to me. I don't need to hear somebody else on a video when I'm paying you as a trainer to explain confined space. How about you just explain it to me in terms of what my crew is going to be doing? Tell me the things that are relevant within 1910-146 to me and my industry at my location. Let's save some money. Let's make scheduling our team easier.

Speaker 0: 3:01

You want to make sure that whatever training you're providing, it is on the tasks that you expect your team to do. So if you're not going to hang off the side of a building, you're not going to be tying knots. You don't have a reason to do high angle rescue because there's other methods of rescuing someone that's at elevation available to you stairwells and things like that and you don't have a reason to do high angle rescue or rope rescue. I just want to be very clear. That is not the same as confined space. So if we are not hanging off the side of a building doing rope rescue, rescuing people at high elevation, then we don't need to be covering that if all we need is training on how to go into a pit or how to go into a confined space, because of their two separate subjects and the skill sets are not the same. Now you may say, jen, there is a reason why we need to know how to tie knots to go into vertical spaces, and I would say I would highly encourage you to look at a tripod and winch situation.

Speaker 0: 3:59

I find in my 1,200 some odd entries that we've been doing for over 20 years of this being a company. I rarely have a winch fail. I have rope rescue fail all the time. We can't do it correctly, the rope hasn't been PMed correctly, it's problematic. There's a lot of care that has to go into maintaining that rope when you're using it for fall arrest and for vertical entry and things like that. So I would really highly encourage you. There's better systems out there, more intuitive systems out there, easier to PM and take care of and manage, especially if you're working in a dirty industry. We do a lot of petrochemical and we do a lot of stuff with rendering and in food plants and their dirty areas, wastewater pits, things like that it's impossible to keep a rope clean for vertical fall arrest stuff in some of those environments. It becomes really problematic, really expensive and just a lot of time when we don't have a lot of time to deal with it. So I'd highly encourage you, look at a tripod, look at a davit, look at winch systems and that's definitely the way to go. So again, no real need to do the rope knot stuff if we're not going to be hanging off the side of a building doing elevated, high angle rescues, which there's a place for that, you guys, there's absolutely a place for that. But hopefully that saves you a little bit of time, a little bit of headache and a little bit of money.

Speaker 0: 5:21

On the scheduling piece, but again, no initial class on confined space. That's not a thing that's required. So I would really push back on that because there is added cost. So it's one of those things where more is not always better. My name's Jen Allen, company's Allen Safety LLC. You can catch us over on our YouTube channel Every other week. For the next few weeks, we're going to be breaking down your confined space questions, going through how to navigate that as a subject, and you can also catch us anywhere. You get podcasts at Safe, efficient, profitable Worker Safety Podcast. We're available there. You can listen to us offline. Otherwise, you can check us out at alan-safetycom and schedule us for in-person services. We offer a whole bunch of them in addition to confined space. So if you've got other safety needs or other process safety management, psm needs, we're there to help you with those too, and otherwise we'll see you every other Monday. Have a safe week everybody.