Safe, Efficient, Profitable: A Worker Safety Podcast
Joe and Jen Allen of Allen Safety LLC take their combined 40+ years of worker safety, OSHA, EPA, production, sanitation, and engineering experience in Manufacturing Plants including Harvest Plants/Packers, Case Readies and Further Processing Plants, Food Production Plants, Feed Mills, Grain Elevators, Bakeries, Farms, Feed Lots, and Petro-Chemical and bring you their top methods for identifying risk, preventing injuries, conquering the workload, auditing, managing emergencies and catastrophic events, and working through OSHA citations. They're breaking down real safety opportunities, safety citations, and emergency situations from real locations, and discussing realistic solutions that can actually be implement based on their personal experiences spending 40+ weeks in the field every year since 2001. Joe and Jen are using all of that experience to provide a fresh outlook on worker safety by providing honest, (no sponsors here!) and straight forward, easy to understand safety coaching with actionable guidance to move your safety program forward in a way that provides tangible results.
Safe, Efficient, Profitable: A Worker Safety Podcast
Contractor Safety: Construction Safety Audits & Smooth Projects #57
Welcome to our latest discussion on contractor safety during project days. In this episode, we dive deep into managing the chaos of the crucial first hour, addressing failures, and providing actionable solutions to enhance safety and efficiency.
Introduction to Project Day Chaos:
The episode opens with a candid acknowledgment of the intense challenges faced during the initial hour of a project. Described as chaotic and critical, this period sets the tone for the entire day's operations.
Key Points Covered:
First Hour Challenges:
The first hour is identified as the most tumultuous, where unexpected issues often arise, from equipment malfunctions to weather disruptions and personnel readiness.
Failures in Planning and Execution:
Examples highlight the common pitfalls of inadequate planning, such as unpreparedness for weather changes or insufficient equipment readiness, impacting workflow and safety protocols.
Third-Party Contractor Management:
Emphasis is placed on the importance of vetting third-party contractors thoroughly before project commencement, ensuring they align with safety standards and provide necessary equipment and expertise.
Contractor Management Systems:
Discussion on the role of contractor management software (e.g., ISN, Avetta) in pre-vetting contractors but also the necessity of physical validation to ensure compliance and safety readiness on site.
Safety Protocols and Permits:
Detailed examination of various safety permits and protocols required, such as hot work permits, line break permits, and elevated work permits, stressing the importance of clarity and necessity to streamline processes.
Equipment Readiness and Maintenance:
Challenges related to equipment readiness, maintenance, and compliance with safety standards are explored, urging proactive measures to prevent on-site mishaps and delays.
Staging and Logistics:
Importance of efficient staging and logistical planning to minimize chaos during the first hour, ensuring smooth operations and accessibility throughout the project site.
Safety Manager’s Role and Training Needs:
Insights into the critical role of safety managers in overseeing project safety, with recommendations for continuous training and hands-on experience to effectively manage dynamic project environments.
Compliance vs. Intent of Safety Codes:
Discussion on aligning with the intent rather than just the compliance of safety codes, navigating gray areas effectively to prioritize risk reduction and operational continuity.
SEO Keywords:
Contractor safety, project day challenges, first hour chaos, safety management software, equipment readiness, safety protocols, contractor vetting, safety compliance, project logistics, risk reduction.
Conclusion:
Join us in mastering the art of contractor safety management on project days by learning from our experiences and practical insights. Subscribe for more safety tips and industry updates to ensure your projects run smoothly and safely.
Call to Action:
Visit Allen Safety Coaching for comprehensive contractor safety modules and resources.
Connect with us on social media for the latest safety insights and industry news.
Subscribe to our YouTube channel for more episodes on managing project day challenges effectively.
Contractor safety. There is a very distinctive time that is the worst in the entire project in my world, the most chaotic and crazy.
Speaker 2:I think that would be what First hour.
Speaker 1:The first hour, yep, that's what it is. That's when it's a train wreck. So that's what we're covering today is how to manage through that chaos. So here we go.
Speaker 2:Alright, today, contractoror Safety Project Day.
Speaker 1:Project Day. First hour First hour and all the crazies Buckle in. Yeah, we do a lot of projects.
Speaker 2:And I always get up way earlier on Project Day to be ready mentally, because the first hour you don't get time to get ready. You walk in, it's like, and you gotta be ready. Yeah, that is very much almost like running command to me. The first hour is.
Speaker 1:You don't get time to get ready. You walk in. It's like and you gotta be ready. Yeah, it's, it's. That is very much almost like running command to me yes it is because you are literally managing every 10 minutes and every 10 feet all right, so here we go.
Speaker 2:So here's first hour.
Speaker 1:Failures hang on before we get started, we're gonna give some solutions at the end absolutely, so just hang on if, for the solutions, this isn't just us creating a bunch of problems and chaos and then leaving you hanging. So stay with us till the end, we'll cover some safety problems, safety solutions safety solutions. That's a great tagline. I should put it on a T-shirt.
Speaker 2:All right, here we go Planning. Yeah, we're ready to go. Saturday Reality None of it really worked the first hour. Here's an example. Wednesday Saturday Reality none of it really worked the first hour.
Speaker 1:Here's an example Wednesday 70 mile an hour, winds, first 15 minutes, I'm there no one was prepared no Lightning, storms, wind, pull up the radar, zoom in no like.
Speaker 2:well, we just changed our whole first hour because all the stuff that they had set out, just started flying away.
Speaker 1:Yeah, started flying everywhere.
Speaker 2:We had it all prepped and it just did not work. I mean, it just did not work. I mean, so that was it.
Speaker 1:So you made a tarp, flapping it in the wind, getting ready to rip off.
Speaker 2:So if you plan, you have this idea that everything's going to be beautiful the day, the weather, the labor, everyone's going to show up on time.
Speaker 1:Everything's going to be great. Who has this idea? If you're new, here, you may have this idea. If you've done a lot of projects, you know it's going to be rough. You just don't know which thing is going to be the problem, so you're just waiting to see which one hits.
Speaker 2:So that's one of the first failures. Another one is you hired a third party because you're a little nervous.
Speaker 1:You hired a third party because they're going to be experts and you're thinking they're going to be more of an expert than your crew. That's right.
Speaker 2:So when they don't bring a meter for confined space, you're like that's weird, because it's hard to get one on a Saturday if they didn't bring one.
Speaker 1:Or the meter that comes out of somebody's truck and got no tube, hadn't been bumped to. Calibration expired six months ago.
Speaker 2:When one manager walks up with seven locks and hands them out to his people and says, all right, we need to lock out now, You're like I wonder what kind of lockout they have that doesn't make me feel confident, right so? That's where you're at, so you have the right to not only validate your third party before they get there, but again, the first hour. Okay.
Speaker 1:So let's still back this up, because a lot of people are using contractor management softwares, right. There's several programs out there. I know at this current time that we're making this. Isn is one of those options. Aveda is one of those options there are others out there?
Speaker 1:The concept is that we're doing some of this vetting of the contractor to validate they have programs, they have training. However, I would really heavily encourage you to still do an in-person check of what that really entails, because there are some workarounds that joe and I are familiar with on how to circumvent some of that stuff.
Speaker 2:So you just want to double check, you want to lay eyes on it because you know it's your site, it's your people and it's it, it's your day just remember, those systems are made for the company to have, but when joe shows up on saturday it's not going to say no system, joe has the training always on Saturday. That's what you get.
Speaker 1:We're not sure who's showing up. So there's a lot of checks and balances that theoretically should occur. They don't always happen, so just double check.
Speaker 2:So that's, that's one of the things. So, because we've got to do that, we've had to go back into those systems, revalidate and say, how did they have an A? But we're having those problems the first 30 minutes.
Speaker 1:Right, I'm also telling you, just as a manager, I don't care what any of those systems say when I roll up to somebody and they're in a confined space and they've got no meter, but they have training.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're going to stop.
Speaker 1:And it's in a space where we know there's a hazard, a batter. So it's things like that of yeah, those programs may say something, or you may have some paper documentation, even on file, that says, yes, we do training, but don't you know? Go with what you're seeing also Go with what your visual is.
Speaker 2:All right, we got hot work permits.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Line break permits.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:Elevator work permits.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Pre-job hazard permits.
Speaker 1:May have a roof permit. Depends on the location.
Speaker 2:May have a ladder permit. They have a lift permit.
Speaker 1:I mean there's a lot of stuff you may be filling out. Yeah, you have the pre-job hazard analysis and then we're filling out a project form. We've got a lot of forms, and so I think the thing that we want to do is we want to walk that back and get that out of the first hour, since that's already chaotic enough, and maybe start figuring out what permits and paperwork do we really need, because we have some designed specifically for projects permits and paperwork do we really need?
Speaker 1:Because we have some designed specifically for projects and others are for just a quick, non-routine maintenance task and we may not need to use all of them, and so we really want to figure out what's the true intent of all these forms. So we're not just filling out forms to fill out forms, because they sort of lose their meaning when we're filling out 10 forms that all kind of have the same stuff.
Speaker 2:Let's find the ones that that make the most sense all right, all the stuff that they supposedly are going to bring, but they don't have all of a sudden and they got to ask us to borrow hey, I got one go ahead meters there you go. Fall protection. I got so many, you got more than one.
Speaker 1:It sounds like all right meters fall protection, usually some kind of confined space entry equipment for vertical lockout stuff Ladders. We've got ladder issues, we've got PITs and aerial lift stuff.
Speaker 2:Fire extinguishers. Yep, I mean, you're just like, are you?
Speaker 1:So it goes back to again did we hire the professional? So? So we got to get ahead of some of this again. When we're looking at bids, we want to vet these people ahead of time and figure out OK, what are you bringing for the dollar, what, what does that the project mean to you, contractor, and what's all covered here, Because that's not always documented out. And then we start having to supply stuff and it gets weird if somebody damages things and it's just yeah.
Speaker 2:Because you feel pressure, I do.
Speaker 1:We got to get this running.
Speaker 2:That we got to get going Because we're already down, but we don't have.
Speaker 1:Can we borrow this real quick? It'll just be a minute, You're like okay.
Speaker 2:But you just slammed it.
Speaker 1:No training on the pit just slammed into half of my stuff, okay yeah, another failure seems to be every ladder in the first hour I don't know why.
Speaker 2:I don't know why every ladder came off a truck and it was perfect and within the 50 feet it went from the truck to the job site. It's already got a problem. I'm like just you had to carry it. I don't know, we did a ladder episode a while back, but you had to carry the ladder. You have to be like, hey, this thing looks broken. Just keep, just keep walking. I mean I don't understand. I don't understand why ladders such a big thing.
Speaker 1:Well, another one not to belabor this, but we do do a lot of confined space entries during projects, like the winch will be busted and it'll show that it's been in a fall, or like in the fall, the restaurant will pop.
Speaker 2:Oh, we have a two-foot hose for a 30-foot confined space, 30 feet in there. What's the intent of? What we're doing Not to make sure the attendant's fine when he's breathing. It's the person inside.
Speaker 1:Do they really know what they're doing? Do they really have the training? And that also at safety folks should kind of start what you're seeing, you should start being like maybe I need to stick around for a couple more hours.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, this is a little off.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, I can't go home at noon turns out.
Speaker 2:Another one. The first hour is figuring out where all this stuff's going to go. I got a loader, I got a park. I got a welder. I got a park, I got a lot of storage. I've got lifts. I've got people's break. I got job box, I got the trail. I got the pickup truck.
Speaker 1:Where's our park? And all and again something we can get out of the first hour to make it less chaotic, because we can work on some of that stuff Friday afternoon or Thursday afternoon If here's where we're going to stage everybody's stuff, and if we've got subs and in general and all these different groups, we can kind of designate some of that stuff out ahead of time.
Speaker 2:And it shouldn't be. I was at one a few weeks ago Can't be whole backside of the plant, because we still have to use the area. We still have to drive semis through there and people walk through there, like I had one the other day where they blocked out every door that will allow anybody to walk through the area. We still have to have egress. We still have to be able to get in and out. So you got to look at where you're going to place all your stuff.
Speaker 1:All right, and then the one here towards the end is the, so everybody has a site eval safety check form about something like that the contractor inspection, usually as part of your contractor management program.
Speaker 2:They'll have that form so the form's not the problem, it's control. A looking at the form and how they're relating those words to what they're seeing is the gap, and it comes down to the training.
Speaker 1:Yeah, who is doing the inspection. So I understand, let's just walk this back for a minute too, just real quick. So I understand, I'm probably going to make some safety managers ruffle a few feathers. Meanwhile, my engineers and maintenance guys are going to be like woohoo, yes, we've been saying it forever. So I go to location A and I'm going to be a safety manager and they're like hey, jen, you need to get some contractors.
Speaker 2:Which everyone on our staff has done safety in some way or another.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we do tons of projects, tons of whatever. And they say to me hey, jen, you're the safety manager now, which I was in the past. So this is why I get to say this they say you need to go to some kind of contractor safety training, because it's different than 1910.
Speaker 2:Because she had a marketing degree. I did so she didn't have a safety degree, so she's got to get some kind of knowledge.
Speaker 1:But this is also required by the company. As I said, you've got to know 1910 general industry, but if you're also going to be in charge of safety for projects, it's a good idea for you to go and learn some about 1926. That's the construction safety standards in the United States. So perfect, great, I went to a holiday in class learn some stuff. But I'm going to tell you, for the most part, unless this is a massive project, most projects are on weekends and nights, right? So if I, jen, decide, I work first shift Monday through Friday that's what they ever scheduled.
Speaker 1:I am never actually seeing how the the flow of the projects go, based on my equipment in my location, with my crewing, with my shifts. I'm never seeing how that flow actually works and I don't know how you apply those concepts if you never see it done. How are you managing the contractor safety program and what forms are necessary? If they make sense if you don't ever see the project occur.
Speaker 2:And some of those forms say safety manager, sign off. Yeah, so that's the other thing, so that's kind of weird.
Speaker 1:Like from the PSM side. We've got PSSRs, MOCs, We've got other things like that that are, you know, management of change for non-regulated stuff. So we're just making changes in the plan. Safety is supposed to sign off on that. I don't know how you sign off on that If you've never seen the technical way of here's where they have to stand. Well, here's how they have to move. How do we identify risk for what's going to happen in this project if we're not sure on the technical side of what where they have to stand and what they have to do to actually complete the job?
Speaker 2:yeah, so I've got there sometimes and I have site safety or project safety or contractor safety or whatever you want to call it somebody's there managing safety, either from the location or from the contract and I'm like how can so many things have an issue if they filled out the form and it's fine and it's not being mean? You ask the people and they've literally never had training on how to associate the word to that problem.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:But they're validating it today.
Speaker 1:Or the other thing that we kind of run into is that if we don't have a good understanding of what is going to be required of the job task ahead of time as safety folks and we do- show up.
Speaker 2:We actually needed a boom lift. We didn't talk about it. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And then so we show up and we do the inspection, and we show up at 10 o'clock but the project started at seven. We missed it all. We missed the whole, all the drama. It's gone. Everything's already going. The biggest risk of the happens.
Speaker 2:We don't want to check the pre-check at 10 and find out they didn't do it for the boom lift. Yes, when they've been using it for three hours.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:So in my world when I do projects I literally just got done with one a few hours ago my world is about you've got to be there before they start that day To see them set up.
Speaker 1:See how it's going to flow, and I think the next critical point and we'll do a podcast on this down the road too is startup. We got to be there if it doesn't work, Correct.
Speaker 2:As a safety group, when they take it down and put it back online.
Speaker 1:That's your hours, those are the two critical parts, that we want safety to be there for Now. During that time, if we find opportunities, we want to make sure again that we are providing solutions. We're not coming out and saying all this stuff is wrong and then leaving and they're like, not safety problems, safety solutions.
Speaker 1:They still got to figure out how to get everything back up and running. So we have to be part of the thing that helps them, and part of what that can be is just find out the details ahead of time so we can plan for it.
Speaker 2:Elevated work is a great example. Everybody has an elevated work plan and they find out they can't get to spot one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's nowhere to tie off, there's nothing.
Speaker 2:Everyone has 50 million ideas of how to do it. I'm like, yeah, but at the end of the day we still have to get to that spot. So we can't. We can't get too crazy, because we got to think about what we really can do.
Speaker 1:Here's the last thing that I'll say, and I know that there's probably going to be some heartburn on this too, but I think we really have to remember. Yes, our policy may say one thing, but when we get into project mode, usually our programs don't cover everything that can happen because there's so much influx going on. So I think we have to remember we want to meet the intent of the code. What is the code, or the laws, or the programs trying to do? What's it trying to accomplish?
Speaker 2:Reduce risk. That's it. That's all we're trying to do.
Speaker 1:And let's meet that intent. That's what we're looking for, if there's not something that's pre-documented on how to follow.
Speaker 2:Sometimes it's a boom list, sometimes it's a sizz list, sometimes it's a scaffold, sometimes it's a tie-off cable. Yeah, I mean there's a lot of gray area and you can find out when you do first weld or first cut or first line break, that it's not what you thought and you have to reset at that moment. But it's still Saturday, it's still running.
Speaker 1:We still got to go. So that's the biggest thing, I think is there's a lot of gray area. How you navigate through that gray area is always stay focused on meeting the intent of what we're trying to accomplish, and I think most of the times that process has not generally steered me wrong.
Speaker 2:You want to reduce the risk, not add more steps, not reduce risk.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's not put in things that are going to create a new problem. That's worse than the first problem.
Speaker 2:So that's our stuff Project day, contractor safety, first hour failures. So when you need to be there at least 30 or 40 minutes before Yep Not to manage it, just to see how it's starting to set up. Is everybody on time, is the equipment looking, is the weather coming, all that.
Speaker 1:And be a resource.
Speaker 2:Be a resource, be a resource.
Speaker 1:We want to stay away from the punitive side. We want to be a resource that's helpful.
Speaker 2:We don't want to get hurt and then say they did something wrong. We want to be on the front end.
Speaker 1:So if you've got questions, allensafetycoachingcom is a great resource for you. We've got an entire contractor management safety process module on there so you can work through that contractor safety module. It's got all kinds of great data on there on how to manage contractor safety, if this is something that you're looking for in terms of programs and the forms and all of that that go along with it. Otherwise, allen-safetycom you can reach out for in-person services. We do a lot of projects and our Site Safety 4 project, so you can reach out to us on that.
Speaker 2:And we've got other episodes on YouTube if you want to go look at too. Yeah, we do.
Speaker 1:On Managing Project Day. We do training stuff as well. You can reach out to us LinkedIn. We're on there. We're on all of the different social media platforms. Reach out to us on there.
Speaker 1:Allen Safety LLC is, I think, our handle on TikTok, instagram, facebook, the Works. Reach out. We'd love to hear from you guys. If there's an episode or subject you want us to cover, make sure you just send us a direct message and we'll try and work it in, and otherwise I think that's it for today. Thank you, take care, everybody. Have to.
Speaker 1:Safe, efficient, profitable. A worker safety podcast. If you're looking for more in-depth discussions or step-by-step solutions on all of the different safety and regulatory topics, please visit us at wwwallensafetycoachingcom for web-based virtual coaching and training, or at wwwallen-safetycom to book our team for onsite services training sessions to order merchandise to learn more about our team and whatite services training sessions to order merchandise to learn more about our team and what services we provide in the field, or just simply to request a topic for us to cover on our next podcast. If you found today's podcast helpful and would like to support our podcast further, please help us by subscribing, liking and sharing this podcast with anyone that could benefit from the information we cover here, as that helps us to continue to put out this free content. Thank you so much for your support. Thank you.
