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Safe, Efficient, Profitable: A Worker Safety Podcast
Joe and Jen Allen of Allen Safety LLC take their combined 40+ years of worker safety, OSHA, EPA, production, sanitation, and engineering experience in Manufacturing Plants including Harvest Plants/Packers, Case Readies and Further Processing Plants, Food Production Plants, Feed Mills, Grain Elevators, Bakeries, Farms, Feed Lots, and Petro-Chemical and bring you their top methods for identifying risk, preventing injuries, conquering the workload, auditing, managing emergencies and catastrophic events, and working through OSHA citations. They're breaking down real safety opportunities, safety citations, and emergency situations from real locations, and discussing realistic solutions that can actually be implement based on their personal experiences spending 40+ weeks in the field every year since 2001. Joe and Jen are using all of that experience to provide a fresh outlook on worker safety by providing honest, (no sponsors here!) and straight forward, easy to understand safety coaching with actionable guidance to move your safety program forward in a way that provides tangible results.
Safe, Efficient, Profitable: A Worker Safety Podcast
Hot Work Toolbox Talk, But Make It 🔥 The Hot Work Safety Risks You're Not Addressing
In this episode we're picking the top hot work safety risks that we've encountered over our careers that can create the perfect storm for a fire event during hot work activities, with luck playing a major role in why some buildings are still standing. Give this episode a listen, and see if your facility has any of these hot work process management risks:
“Top Failures in Hot Work Safety – Not Your Typical Toolbox Talk”
🔥 Overview:
In episode of Safe, Efficient, Profitable, hosts Joe and Jen of Allen Safety go beyond the basics of hot work training to uncover the top failures in hot work safety programs—the kind that can literally burn your facility down if left unaddressed. Forget the standard "check your extinguisher" talk—this is a real-world, experience-driven deep dive based on years of safety audits, incidents, and lessons learned on the ground.
This episode is a must-listen for safety professionals, plant managers, contractors, and fire watch personnel looking to prevent catastrophic fire risks during welding, cutting, and grinding operations.
🔥 Key Points Covered:
Fire Watch Confusion
Many Fire Watch personnel don’t understand where to stand, how long to stay, or how to follow the work if it moves.
Most training doesn’t address real-world logistics or site-specific protocols.
Undefined Hot Work Areas
Critical visibility issues arise when Fire Watch personnel are nowhere near the hot work.
Real examples include watching welding work 50+ feet away or in confined spaces—ineffective and dangerous.
Incomplete Permit Processes
Hot work permits are often pre-filled, not site-specific, or treated as blanket 8-hour approvals.
There’s a lack of accountability around evaluating new locations, travel paths, and potential hazards as work progresses.
Distance & Multiple Weld Zones
Welding that spans 200+ feet of conveyor systems or fencing requires multiple permits and Fire Watch assignments, not just one.
Permits need to consider clearance areas (35 feet around each weld), extinguisher placement, and actual work duration.
Shift Transitions & Breakdowns in Fire Watch Coverage
Contractor Liability Gaps
Confusion over who is liable—contractor vs. host site—especially when personnel change mid-project.
This opens the door for unapproved hand-offs, missed hazards, and untracked accountability.
The Root of It All: Lack of Planning
Most issues stem from a lack of project planning.
Pre-job assessments are rushed or overlooked, especially for multi-employer worksites.
Without the right number and quality of trained personnel, hazards slip through the cracks.
🔍 SEO Keywords & Phrases:
Hot work safety failures
Fire watch best practices
Welding permit compliance
Preventing fires during hot work
Hot work hazard assessment
Allen Safety podcast
Industrial fire prevention
Safety planning for contractors
Toolbox talk hot work
OSHA hot work permit
Real-world fire watch training
đź’ˇ Final Takeaway:
“Hot work safety is about way more than checking extinguishers—it’s about people, planning, positioning, and responsibility.”
If your team is unclear on any of those, it’s time to revisit your program.
🎯 For More Support:
Visit AllenSafety.com for onsite training and safety services.
Explore AllenSafetyCoaching.com for virtual coaching, resources, and free email support.
This episode is intended for educational purposes. Solutions offered are not designed to take the place of an attorney or medical professional, and should not be taken as legal or medical advice. It is recommended that viewers consult a safety consultant, medical provider or an occupational safety legal team as applicable to help navigate their specific
Welcome back everybody. This week we're talking about hot work and this is not oh, check your extinguishers hot work training. This is gonna be the top failures that could contribute to burning your location down that you probably wanna avoid.
Speaker 2:Hi, welcome back. Welcome back here we are Allen's Safety YouTube channel.
Speaker 1:topic worker safety joe jen and just again want to reach out and say hey guys, thanks, thanks for being part of our community. It's been a real ride. So thank you for sticking with us in the early years and thanks for still still believing in us and watching now.
Speaker 2:So these are top failures of hot work. Uh, why did we pick this one? We have been to locations literally a few weeks later watched the building burn down because of somebody's hot work, and it makes it but it was sad and then so we paid attention over the years. So this is not from last year.
Speaker 1:This like years of stuff that we're like these are accumulation of, of many things that we feel are contributing factors, that you know it's preventable.
Speaker 2:So the very first one is one of the events we had was the contractor and or the employee doing firewatch. Doesn't really know where they need to be for the 30 minutes where they're standing. Is it. Do I stand here? Do I stand over there? Because we'll sign them to be the 30 minute firewatch or the 60 minute firewatch, but what does that really mean?
Speaker 1:Well, just think about the logistics of this real quick in your mind. Most firewatch training is either done in a classroom setting, maybe a little bit done outside in terms of like if you actually shoot off an extinguisher.
Speaker 2:otherwise it may be a virtual extinguisher situation and I don't know at what point we're ever like hey, and here correct next to this post I had one a few months ago that had to be 50 feet where they were doing the hot work first was standing there because the other hot work was there well, how many months are we really talking?
Speaker 1:how? Many well did we do. And we may have a saturday where we're just going spot to spot to spot to spot For hours.
Speaker 2:For hours.
Speaker 1:So how many fire watches is that? That's correct? Do they move with the person or do they stay with?
Speaker 2:the person and do the 30 minutes.
Speaker 1:And you know what the hot work programs don't say, don't say they're not clear. You got to tell the person where to stand, when, how long to stand there, that is what we're missing in the program and that is what we're missing in the training for the person doing the welding, and that's what we're missing just overall in the fire watch training. We're not telling them the technical details on what to do and where to go. It goes beyond just here's how you use an extinguisher.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Another one is what is the actual hot work area? Where is it? Because I've seen fire watches here the hot work be way up there or way over there.
Speaker 1:I'm like yeah, they're welding like in the ceiling and the person's on the ground.
Speaker 2:That makes no sense. That makes no sense gun?
Speaker 1:you can't, you can't even. That's not even really line aside. You're just standing here and hoping the welder's like, hey, it's on fire, can you?
Speaker 2:help, yeah, and then, as the person performing the hot work, you got to look at what they're doing so say they're in a confined space and they're doing hot work.
Speaker 1:I was just going to say I'm thinking confined space.
Speaker 2:Do you really want the fire watch jumping in, or are you going to have a different policy for that?
Speaker 1:And I think that the intent of the permit is supposed to kind of flush out some of those things. They're not Right, the permits aren't capturing it. That's usually the method that we use to do kind of a pre-job hazard assessment. It's not catching the stuff.
Speaker 2:All right, and another one is okay, so I've got to fill out this permit.
Speaker 1:I'm with you.
Speaker 2:And this project is going to take eight hours. Yes, so I'm going to give you this permit from my desk.
Speaker 1:Yes, so you're the supervisor.
Speaker 2:So somehow that permit just became an eight hour document that lives on its own.
Speaker 1:Well, that's what you did yesterday. We're going to continue the project today. Here's the permit for today.
Speaker 2:And you're like but how did you evaluate the 30 foot and 50 foot and extinguishers?
Speaker 1:There's no way again, it's where do they need to stand? How? Many, should there be that permit all kind of I think under the assumption for whatever reason I don't know why I was when I first got into safety before I really knew what was going on that there's only like one fire watch, like one fire watch per person welding, like it's someone welding and then there's a fire watch with them, it's's two people. And that's not true. That's not true necessarily.
Speaker 2:Another one you have is footage. So I'm going to be 200 feet away, so it's a 30 minute fire watch for 200 feet, or is it 30 minute fire watch for this five feet where we did the first one? Because what happens is if I travel, like you you talked about earlier, with the footage of the 200 feet, because I'm making sure they don't go in the wrong area, I'm not controlling the other part now pins, you know, think hog barns.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they are drops below systems and I'm I'm installing new equipment or you know already not conveyors or something I just really think if you had to go in and you were going to overhaul and repair stuff, it could be huge distance that that one welder can travel because they're not going to stay there with their first weld. That doesn't make any sense. So they're covering a massive area, you just so. How many permits do you need?
Speaker 1:Because that's what you got to be asking, then you're saying that you've got to also have a 35 foot clearance around each one of those welds and theoretically, you're giving me your permit from your office and I'm walking out there and it's pre-signed, which obviously we all know is wrong. We're not advocating.
Speaker 2:Point of it is. It's a risk, and we've seen it. We've seen that happen.
Speaker 1:And so just how are you making sure the final weld, that's 200 foot away, still meets the intent of the permit, which is 35 foot clear? All these things are in place. We did the hazard analysis. You know we're good about doing that process and filling out the permit for the first weld, but once you start getting multiple welds, all that stuff falls off.
Speaker 2:And then the other one that's always weird to me is we have a 10 minute break or we're going home in 10 minutes, so time time is interesting how the fire watch can actually change times. So we have a 30 minute hour watch, but we have a 10 minute break.
Speaker 1:Then 10 minutes you're leaving, but or we like we assign multiple fire watches and so they step in and take your place, but they weren't on the permit, so we're going to add them real quick.
Speaker 2:Hey can you come over here. Yeah, we're leaving today. We're a contractor. Can the host now manage it Okay?
Speaker 1:Can they take over it?
Speaker 2:was your hot work, it was your people, it was your everything, your liability.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the plant didn't or the location didn't sign off on the permit. It's a contractor's supervisor that signed off. So why am I now adding my people to be the fire watch and you're headed out, so that you don't charge me overtime or double? Time or whatever. It gets really weird. Part of it is really planning.
Speaker 2:Right, that's the final one. The final was to capture all of this, our solution is you got to plan it, you got to look at what you're really doing.
Speaker 1:Jobs go and don't do this that morning it's too late right we have a bunch of videos on project day and managing and hot work and hot work and and making sure that things go smoothly come project day and working with contractors.
Speaker 1:This is something that, if you know what's coming, try and start working on this during the week so that we have the right number of people allocated and the right set of eyes. It's not just how many people look at something, but it's the right folks that really understand what's going on, getting some eyes on it to mitigate those hazards.
Speaker 2:Jen said in the hot work episode a few weeks ago no, all the piece of paper really is is who's liable at the end of the day. Yeah, oh, if it's about liability, then have a.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's start playing, especially if it's again multi employer work sites. For sure, that's our, that's our top failures of hot work. So think about that, see if any of those apply to you and let us know in the comments if you think we missed it.
Speaker 2:These are opinions. These are opinions.
Speaker 1:Yeah, these are our opinions, so this is just. Obviously I can't capture them all. This is 10 minutes because we're trying to make these bite-sized lessons for you guys too. We know you don't have all day, so we try to just hit the top ones. If there's some that were biggies that we missed, let us know in the comments. Otherwise, if you want us to do a side evaluation uh, some kind of behavior-based safety audit evaluation I don't love the word safety audit, that's kind of what it is, but it's not um, you can reach out Allen dash, safetycom If you want to have some in-person services, projects, procedures, contractor safety stuff, any of those things.
Speaker 2:We would love to travel to your location.
Speaker 1:We would love to do some in-person stuff with you guys. Otherwise, if in-person training, audits, project stuff isn't in the budget this year, you can head over to allensafetycoachingcom. That's a great in-between and you also get free email coaching with us. Yeah, so you can email Joe and I for free. That's part of that coaching membership, so you kind of get some some support Also just watch every one of the videos we currently have out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you could do that. Just sit down for a Saturday afternoon and be like I think I'll watch these.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and we know some folks. Thank you.
Speaker 2:All right, have a good day.
Speaker 1:Have a great week. Everybody, take care. Thank you for listening to Safe, efficient, profitable a worker safety podcast. If you're looking for more in-depth discussions or step-by-step solutions on all of the different safety and regulatory topics, please visit us at wwwallensafetycoachingcom for web-based virtual coaching and training, or at wwwallensafetycom to book our team for onsite services, training sessions to order merchandise, to learn more about our team and what services. Thank you so much for your support. Thank you.
